Raising a Child Veg*n

[AnimalAvenger]

In my opinion, it is not. Many people will tell you "not to force your personal choice on your kid!" but really, when you raise them to eat meat, you are still "forcing your personal choice on your kid!"

Anyways, what is your opinion on it?

[whirrs]

"Many people will tell you "not to force your personal choice on your kid!" but really, when you raise them to eat meat, you are still "forcing your personal choice on your kid!" "

Hm, never thought of it that way. thanks angela!

HOWEVER. Personally, I don't buy the whole PETA's "being vegan is the healthiest way to go!" Because, it's not. I am only vegan for the animals. I believe that humans will never have all the necessary vitamins through a plant-based diet. We're omnivores after all.

Therefore, while I don't think i could ever feed my children (hypothetically speaking) meat, I will only let them become vegan when they're 16. I could always support free-range eggs and stuff though. :-)

[GYARADOS.]

dairy is even more unnatural for us to eat. i never head of the caveman that milked cows and drank it.

janice: i dont mean to be rude, but SV is right.
“Well-planned vegan [pure vegetarian] and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. " -the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canad

[whirrs]

Didn't think it was rude at all!

Actually, I completely understand how you feel because that's what I used to think too. (I was vegan when I was 14/15)

Before I start though, I just want you to know that by no means am I saying that we should eat animals! I strongly oppose taking another's life for the benefit of our own. I'm just stating my opinion on whether being vegan really is healthy.

i never head of the caveman that milked cows and drank it.
we obviously live longer and are healthier than cavemen. I also never heard of cavemen that had TV, ovens, internet, shoes, instruments, etc. Does that mean we should stop watching TV or wearing clothes or playing music? Didn't think so.

Actually, humans are naturally herbivorous.
This could be possible, I've read all those long lists about how our canine teeth aren't long enough and how we have to cook our meat before eating it (except sushi and rare steak?) but all those claims about the digestive traits etc. are from EXTREMELY biased, vegan-supporting sources. Us, being vegans, tend to sort of close off to other sources, for examples, ones that remind you of the calcium and GOOD cholesterol found in dairy & eggs.

And look at the highly reduced risks of almost all diseases in vegans.
veganism is a relatively new diet, I don't think enough vegans have lived long enough to make a generalised assumption that diseases don't happen to us.

And all necessary vitamins/minerals are available in plants.
apart from B12.

Once again, I'm not saying that we should eat meat and I definitely don't want people to start hating me for having different opinions, I'm just saying that a lot of the sources that say being vegan is completely healthy is extremely biased and possibly just a bunch of BS in attempt to convert people.

That is why I think maybe being vegetarian until you're 16 (yes, I'm a hypocrite) or taking B12 & iron supplements could be a good idea.

Of course, feel free to debate, I'm very open-minded and may change my mind if you have really good points!

[whirrs]

woah, wrote a novel there, excuse me!

[GYARADOS.]

i see what you mean about biased sources, but what i said:
“Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. "
is a direct quote from the american dietetic association and dietitians of canada, it's not biased at all, a complete and utter fact.

naturally, we're supposed to get our B12 from the soil (also where cows get it). when we eat veggies fresh from the ground, without rinsing them we get plenty of B12! but nowadays we rinse everything before eating it. it also comes from mushrooms and sea vegetables. so we could definitely be perfectly healthy without any supplements.

[whirrs]

Whirrs' novel part 2:

okay, SV, before you start going "meat is murder!!" on me... I KNOW. That's why I am a vegan. And I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough the first time, but I did say earlier that, hypothetically speaking, my children would be vegetarians until they are mature enough, and even then, they would only eat free-range eggs/dairy.

but, even though I am a vegan just like you are, I refuse to automatically buy into everything that peta says. SV, I actually have heard every single point you just made before. I had the same debate/argument with my parents in my early vegan days, and I still haven't found any unbiased sources that say that veganism is definitely healthier. That means no goveg.com or peta! If you could find any for me that would be great on my behalf too, so I can shove it in my parent's face and go HA. I also haven't found any actual evidence of your claims, except for these random percentages from unmentioned studies.

Plus, I don't believe in your "hard facts" (sources please please please!) With facts there are always uncertainties.. like how people used to think the world was flat, how we used to think black people had smaller brains than white people.

and thanks kitty :-) I have forgotten about those points! I'm glad that you actually read what I wrote and understood what I was saying!

But, still, the evidence that say that dairy is healthy is so much more overwhelming than the peta evidence that says dairy is unhealthy. Did you know that when you turn 25, your body stops absorbing calcium and from then on, all calcium is only lost and never gained?

I love animals, but I think I would also love my children (if I end up having any that is!) Don't you think it would be really unfair to them, if it DOES turn out that veganism is unhealthy? When you have kids, you are basically controlling and directing someone's life. Compassion is important, but when it comes to something that can potentially affect their lives (in this case, make them vulnerable to health problems like calcium deficiency), I really think it should be up to them, the kids, whether they want to take this risk or not.

animal liberation, but human liberation too.

the end! :-)

(oh yeah, once again, feel free to debate. But PLEASE read what I wrote first, this time!)

[AnimalAvenger]

Here's the ADA's vegetarian position statement:
www.vrg.org/nutrition/adapaper.htm

Did you know that when you turn 25, your body stops absorbing calcium and from then on, all calcium is only lost and never gained?

Many milk alternatives contain the same amounts of calcium as cows' milk if not more.

[GYARADOS.]

your welcome!

i don't think SV is talking about peta, im sure peta has said so of the things he's saying but so do so many others!
if his health facts are doubtable than wouldn't yours be too? i dont quite understand what you mean when you say you dont believe in his "hard facts".
do you feel that your children will become calcium deficient if they dont consume dairy products? because there really isn't all that much calcium in dairy products.
and as horrid as it is, animals raised for eggs and dairy are slaughtered and suffer just as much as those raised for meat, even free-range and organic.

oh! not to mention, i know at least 10 people who were raised veagn since birth and people who are raising vegan children, all of which are perfectly healthy! one of them goes to my school and she has been in all honors since 7th grade!
i personally haven't found any deficiencies of any kind in any of them.
www.naturalhealthtechniques.com/Diet_Nutrition/calcium.htm
there are some natural sources of calcium, about 85% of them are vegan, very few come from dairy!

[whirrs]

I understand the point you are making, but I still don't think it is right to make all the decisions for someone else, especially if it can be potentially harmful. And I still don't believe that herbivore is healthier than omnivore. Until peta and the several organisations you guys have mentioned, I have only heard things about how milk is good for you, but as soon as those percentages from the organisations come up, we just immediately discard everything we've heard beforehand? Maybe peta and those other couple of organisations happen to be correct and all the other evidence is wrong, but I'm just not the type to buy into anything someone says. And so far the evidence has not been too convincing.

But I do think it is a good time to agree that I have different opinion and you have different opinions, because I think if I try to explain my opinion again I will only repeat myself, and vice versa!

but "Free-range means nothing. The animals are still abused and tortured, and when their production declines, they are still sent to slaughter."
I don't know, but I think free range is like the old school farming with big fields and proper lifestyle for the chickens and cows. Maybe it is different in the united states, but I'm pretty definite that cows in Japan and Kowloon are treated kindly - I have seen them myself! They have gigantic fields and I fed & petted them. :3

[GYARADOS.]

i know what you mean about pro-vegan sources, but even the unbiased sources (like the American Dietetic Association) dont actually say "it's unhealthy to be vegan". all they're pointing out if that some animal products can be good for you, that doesn't mean you NEED them. even if some dairy products are good for us, doesn't mean we need them. i have yet to find any facts stating that we CANNOT be vegan and healthy, that we MUST eat animal products or die. there's really no proof.
i highly doubt that we're dependent on other creatures, that we need another species breast milk.

ive also been to local free-range farms. they aren't as bad a factory farms. but they're also local and small scale. they will never be a rich as Dairygold or something. in order to make maximum profit you must treat them like machines. even on local, organic, free-range farms they are still artificially inseminated, have their children taken away to become veal, and in the end are slaughtered. they want you to think about the wide open fields where cows romp and play and live 'natural' happy lives. it's just a ploy to make money.


im sorry if we seem aggressive. i just feel passionately about this, i do hear what you're saying though and i understand where you're coming from, i really do!

[AnimalAvenger]

I do not believe it's forcing your opinion on someone else. Those who raise their children as meat-eaters also force their own opinions on their children. They corrupt them by making them disassociate the dead animal on their plate to the breathing, living, suffering animal on the farm. Many believe that only vegetarians force their opinions on others when meat-eaters do most of it.

[GYARADOS.]

well put. i HATE when people say that veg*ns force their opinions onto their children. HATE IT.

[whirrs]

okay, sorry. poor choice of words. Don't hate me! D:

I'll change it now, but,

I actually like this a lot!

"i know what you mean about pro-vegan sources, but even the unbiased sources (like the American Dietetic Association) dont actually say "it's unhealthy to be vegan". all they're pointing out if that some animal products can be good for you, that doesn't mean you NEED them. even if some dairy products are good for us, doesn't mean we need them. i have yet to find any facts stating that we CANNOT be vegan and healthy, that we MUST eat animal products or die. there's really no proof.
i highly doubt that we're dependent on other creatures, that we need another species breast milk"


That's a really good point actually,


just some random site i searched on google for. I think it was pretty neutral and looked at both good points and bad points about vegan diet.
chetday.com/strictvegandiet.htm

he says: "In fact, my experiences have led me to believe that many people don’t need to get more than 10 – 25 percent of their total calories from clean, organic animal foods to be at their best. Just in the past year alone, I have worked with several people who were experiencing significant health challenges on a long term, strict vegan diet and were extremely grateful to see their health improve by adding small amounts of clean animal foods to their diets. "

Maybe it could be compromise. Vegan mostly, but maybe one organic egg & butter every month or so?

The thing is, while animal rights is important to me, I value human life just as much. While I don't want to see any animals being hurt for humans, I don't want any humans being hurt for animals. I hope you see what I mean.

[AnimalAvenger]

If we eat only one egg a month, what will we do with the rest of the carton?

Also, it's what that guy observed vs. the entire ADA. Who do you think knows more?

Many vegan products also contain many of the vitamins us vegans need, so if we eat the right things, including a vegan B12 source, we should be as health as meat-eaters. If you do experience problems, though, of course you're going to have to go back to just plain vegetarianism for a bit.

Many foods are fortified with Vitamin B12, the only vitamin it is hard to get for us vegans. Some of them include milk alternatives, some meat alternatives, and many more sources. It is important to check the label, however to be sure that your produts contain B12.