Wool Cruelty

[AnimalAvenger]

I looked up wool cruelty, because my mom wanted to buy me a wool coat. Now, at least, I have something to show her, so she knows why I don't want one.

www.veganpeace.com/animal_cruelty/wool.htm

[Coco]

Hey
I felt I had to comment on this. I dream of being a wool farmer when I am older, as I'd just love it. Now, this page presents some nasty stuff, yes, but it doesn't show the positives as well. And I also hate the negative image they seem to be showing on Australia. Just because we produce the most wool, doesn't mean we're the most cruel or anything. I love sheep farms. I believe the animals are relatively fairly treated. Let's start with mulesing. It says how cruel it is and such, where the animals are put through quite an amount of pain. But in reality, it's either this or they get eaten alive by maggots. I tell you what, I'd prefer be mulesed to be honest. AND, they never mentioned a cruelty free alternative to mulesing is in the making. It's on the news a lot here, considering I live in a large merino district; a famous wool growing area. Mulesing was turning people off the use of wool, so Australians are beginning to convert to the cruelty free alternatives. Now, shearing. It isn't so bad really. Sheep get cuts and grazes and stuff, but most animals aren't injured so bad. A sheep with a broken leg would have to be shot. It would be no good, so they try hard not to injure animals whilst shearing. It has to be done, or the animals will die from heat stroke. We have two sheep, one being merino, not sure of the other, but I sure as hell know that in summer, with all their wool gone, the sheep are puffing and panting, and they do suffer, even with no wool. If they had their wool, well they're as good as dead. Shearing has to be done. Now I do believe the transportation of some of these animals is far too tight and cruel, but there ARE alternatives. In rural areas, animals are sometimes driven to areas via sheep dogs, horses and motorbikes. Sadly, this is a dying thing, but I will hopefully use such a technique on my farm whenever, as it's totally naturally. No harm is brought to the sheep.
I am clearly not against the wool industry really. I know in a way it supports meat slightly, as coloured sheep are often taken to be slaughtered, but such a practice will not take place at my farm, and I'm sure of that. I will not support the meat industry in any way. But I fully support the wool industry. It is about as eco-friendly as materials get, except cotton and other plant materials used for clothing. Weighing up, synthetic clothing is much worse for the environment. So you have to take a choice really. Though I am strongly against the suffering, my belief is that shearing is quite a cruelty-free activity

~Coco x

[AnimalAvenger]

Let's start with mulesing. It says how cruel it is and such, where the animals are put through quite an amount of pain. But in reality, it's either this or they get eaten alive by maggots.

That or not buy/sell/create wool.

Even if you disagree, it is my strong opinion that animals are not ours. We shan't use them for our profit in any way. Would we do this with humans or even cats or dogs?

AND, they never mentioned a cruelty free alternative to mulesing is in the making.

And how many wool farmers will actually use this "cruelty-free" alternative?

[Coco]

How many farmers will be using the cruelty free alternative? Everyone. They will go out of business without using the cruelty free alternative now. No-one wants wool raised in a cruel environment anymore, so it will be more profitable for the farmer to use the cruelty free alternative, therefore making it the more preferable of an option.
the whole "Animlas are not ours to use" etc. Well, I must say , I agree with this. But even if they stopped selling wool and such, in a place like Australia, if these sheep were in the wild, chances are the maggot problem would still exist. Flies are quite a problem here, so unless they move every single sheep out of Australia, there is still going to be sheep eaten alive by maggots. Not nice. And, the 'using animals for profit' thing, well, it happens. All the time. Yes, they use humans, cats and dogs for profit. Dog racing is using dogs for profit. The pet trade industry is using the animals for profit. In some countries, even people are used for profit. So yes, we would use those animals for profit. OH, and don't forget they eat cats and dogs, so, yes, they use that for profit too. And I am totally against that, don't get any idea that I support it. Just saying.

~Coco x

[AnimalAvenger]

if these sheep were in the wild

They will not be released into the world; they will merely eventually die out as a species, instead.

And, the 'using animals for profit' thing, well, it happens. All the time.

That does not excuse any use of animals, non-human or not, for one's own profit.[/quote]

[Coco]

Yea, well, no matter how much we say that, it's gunna happen. There are much worse things out there that are happening which should concern people more. The wool industry really isn't that bad at all, nothing like what that website makes it out to be. I've seen plenty of wool farms in my life, and not once have I found myself disgusted. And, the dying out as a species thing, well, these sheep deserve to be alive just as much as any other sheep, and in my opinion, wool sheep appear to be pretty darn happy with their lives. I never see/hear them complaining. I am a huge animal person; I love them so much, and things like dairy, meat etc; yes, they disgust me. But wool, it's a natural product, doesn't harm the animals, hardly harms the environment, and has many other benefits for both humans and other animals. Yes, I believe all animals are equal. Yes, I am against using animals for resource if it brings harm to the animals. Hey, people put horse crap on their lawns. That's using an animal product, and hey, I doubt you're against that, so. It's a win/win battle. The sheep gain much out of the wool industry, and so do people.

~Coco x

[laughsolot]

I agree with Coco on this. Besides killing the sheep, and with the new way of preventing maggots, the wool industry isn't cruel. And you shouldn't be so negative and say that sheep will eventually die out because that probably isn't true. You should always be hopeful. Also, people DO do this to other people. In India, many people get their hair shaved off for religious beliefs and it goes to America to make wigs.

[AnimalAvenger]

And you shouldn't be so negative and say that sheep will eventually die out because that probably isn't true.

If we were to stop using them for wool, they wouldn't be bred so much.

In India, many people get their hair shaved off for religious beliefs and it goes to America to make wigs.

They have a choice; sheep don't.

Hey, people put horse crap on their lawns. That's using an animal product, and hey, I doubt you're against that, so. It's a win/win battle.

I'm not against putting horse feces on lawns, but I am against riding them without their consent. There's a debate on horse-riding and such in the debate forum if you wish to debate that.

Wool, however, is the only reason most of these animals are bred and used. Horses aren't used primarily for their crap.

well, these sheep deserve to be alive just as much as any other sheep,

If something weren't born, it wouldn't know life in the first place. It wouldn't exist at all. How could you say that something that has never even been brought into existence deserves to live?

[Coco]

Hey hey, guess what; I'm against horse riding too if it's against the horse's will. Coco, the bay thoroughbred mare of whom I got my name from online, HATES being ridden. I would never ride her in my life because she dislikes it. Anyone who does ride it is heartless in my eyes, because I know she hates it.

Consider the fact that these sheep, in reality, have a fairly great life. For about 11 out of 12 months a year, these sheep are free to wander to their heart's content, socialise, mate, sleep, eat, drink, and anything else they might even possibly wish to do during their life time. The other month, if that, they're being moved to green pastures, having their wool removed, and that sort of thing. These sheep are practically left to do their own things. It's not like they're stuck in tight cages like chickens and the rest, and they're not annoyed by humans all the time like dairy cows.

And, Laughsalot, good point, I didn't actually know that about the Indians. But come to think of it, they probably don't have that much choice. The family they're brought up in causes them to be brainwashed into the religion their family follows, so they're given little choice.

~Coco x

[laughsolot]

Exactly! "If we stopped using them for wool they wouldn't be bred so much." So using them for wool, is keeping them alive is what you're saying. And that's a bad thing how???......

Yes they don't have a choice, but if they did, they would say yes! It's the only way not to get overheated!

And from what coco said, it sounds like the sheep have awesome lives! I still don't understand what the problem is with wool.

[dynastygal]

The only reason sheep 'need to be' shorn is because humans bred them that way. Their wild counterparts do just fine. And wool isn't vegan. It's not right to use any animal for human gain. You can say how happy the sheep are all you want but it's just another 'happy meat' situation. The wool industry is linked with the meat industry. Not to mention the way sheep are shorn is rather rough and cruel.

Keeping the species alive is a bad thing because they're not a natural species and they're only alive because humans want them to be; so they can be used for human gain. A well treated slave is still a slave.

[AnimalAvenger]

And that's a bad thing how???.....

I don't see why they need to be born. If they haven't existed, they haven't lost a thing. If they haven't existed, they haven't suffered the slavery humans have put them through.

A well treated slave is still a slave.

Agreed.

[Coco]

Sorry guys, but unless you like, live on a wool farm, you've never seen as many sheep as me. I know for sure that there's some damn happy sheep out there. In fact, they're all happy. They know nothing different, and, what they don't know can't hurt them. Dude, if you saw my sheep, well, they think they're all people!

Oh, and just while I think of it, the ring on the tail thing I didn't speak of. It doesn't hurt them. The ring is put on and slowly (like, over a month or so), circulation is cut off with no pain to the sheep what-so-ever. Our youngest lamb has her tial ringed right now, and she doesn't even notice it. If it hurt them, they would try to get it off.
Plus, right now she has the runs (too much green grass we suppose), and you have no idea how important it is for us to watch her. If, say, 100 sheep had their tails and all had the runs, mate, you'd be out there for 23/24 hours a day. We have to watch her, since it's summer here, very often, as a single fly down there could end in her butt being eaten away. The flesh around a sheep's backside is very soft, and to maggots, edible. So the painless ringing of her tail is really worth it. Plus, it's funny finding a tail under your dining room table (Willow's fell off there, lmao.)

Yes, I realsie wool farming SLIGHTLY supports meat farming, as black sheep are sometimes sold to the butchers, as they're usually no good for wool, though some people spin black/brown/grey wool. But hey, sheep happens.

And, well, I'm not vegan, so, who cares if wool ain't vegan? I don't, I'm vegetarian, so what's vegan doesn't worry me. I have a heavily vegan friend, who actually lives on a raw diet (mainly for animals, but also for his own health) and he uses wool. He sees nothing wrong with it, so hey, if he sees nothin' wrong with it, I believe it. I live in the biggest wool growing district in the world (Yes, literally.) and I've seen millions of happy wool sheep in my life ^^ I know a happy merino when I see one.

~Coco x

[dynastygal]

Again, a well cared for slave is STILL a slave. You are using an animal for personal gain. That is WRONG. And ever thought the sheep might want to keep their tails? The younger sheep at the farm sanctuary I go to have their tails in tact.

Wool is linked to the meat industry because no farmer trying to earn a living is going to rely on wool alone. In the UK wool is a by-product of sheep farming.

Just because you live on a wool farm doesn't make you an expert on what's best for animals. Historians didn't live in the middle ages yet they can easily gain knowledge by studying artifacts and what not. I've done a course that involved having to go to the college farm every week. This farm was for teaching standards, yet the sheep and other animals were treated like crap.

Also, just because one 'vegan' doesn't adhere to veganism entirely doesn't make us all half assed in our veganism.

[AnimalAvenger]

Oh, and just while I think of it, the ring on the tail thing I didn't speak of. It doesn't hurt them. The ring is put on and slowly (like, over a month or so), circulation is cut off with no pain to the sheep what-so-ever. Our youngest lamb has her tial ringed right now, and she doesn't even notice it. If it hurt them, they would try to get it off.

If someone did this to one of your body parts, and it didn't hurt you, would you be alright with it?

He sees nothing wrong with it, so hey, if he sees nothin' wrong with it, I believe it.

If one person is alright with wool, you should be, too?

Also, did it ever occur to you that the majority of wool sold around the world might not come from "happy" farms?

There are a few meat/dairy farms around where I live that don't look too bad on the outside from the times I've passed them, but there is no way these "okay" farms make up the majority of farms in my country. I've also passed plenty of farms that looked like they'd probably also be factory farms, but I've never been inside of them. All the animals in these farms appeared to be packed inside close together from what I was able to see.

Of course, I know this is different from what you've seen, because, according to you, all the wool farms around you are "good" farms. How many of these farms have you actually been inside, and how large is the percentage of the "good" farms you've seen compared to all of the wool farms in your country?