Vegetarian Debate Board

[Guest]

Hi =)

I know I'm not registered and am just a guest, but that's because I'm just curious, and also lazy and don't want to go through the process of joining. If you want to delete this, I understand, but I was hoping to get your point of views on a subject considering Vegetarianism that I've never understood.

Kay. So let me make one thing clear first: I love animals, I really do. I even stopped riding horses because I felt so bad about it, lol. I do care about them a lot.

Having said that, here's what I'd like to know:

A lot of Vegetarians are such because they believe it is cruel to kill animals. But I ask, why?
• They would not have been born in the first place, if we had not brought them to life to eat
• We do it for food
• Other animals, kill animals, and we do not find that cruel. A tiger hunts down his dinner, and we call it the circle of life. How different are we? In fact, it could be said we are even better, because we raise them to be killed, and do not take them from families and such as wild animals do. We are, simply, animals killing animals for food.
• The death is quick, instantaneous.

Now, I will not eat animals that have been hunted down and killed. That, I believe is cruel, because people do it for sport, not for food, and because those animals would have likely lived without our interference.

But animals that were raised to be killed, for food, to feed people, are another matter. Just like other animals, we kill them to eat.

So I ask, what are your opinions on this? If we are just animals killing animals, just like a lion or a tiger, why do you find it so cruel?

I've always wanted to ask a Vegetarian, but I don't know any, lol.

[AnimalAvenger]

[Linn]

Hello, nice to hear from you. Maybe you'll consider joining eventually? ;D

Most vegetarians and vegans don't eat meat because they do think that killing animals is cruel. I'm not part of that category, I don't have a problem with it as long as the animal lives a happy, comfortable life which ends in being killed humanely. However, most animals raised for meat are raised in factory farms, so their lives are filled with suffering and cruelty.

There's a video called Meet Your Meat (click the link to watch it) that pretty much sums up the cruelty of most factory farms and slaughterhouses.

Edit; Dangit, you beat me to it. XD

[AnimalAvenger]

Aug 12, 2009 1:11:22 GMT -5 @Guest said:

Hi =)

I know I'm not registered and am just a guest, but that's because I'm just curious, and also lazy and don't want to go through the process of joining. If you want to delete this, I understand, but I was hoping to get your point of views on a subject considering Vegetarianism that I've never understood.

Hello and welcome .

I don't see a reason to delete this. This will actually help the forum, out, too.

• They would not have been born in the first place, if we had not brought them to life to eat

Some things are much worse than dying or not living at all. Factory farm animals experience mostly only pain and suffering in their lives. They experience no love at all, sometimes not even from a member of their own species.

• We do it for food

We do not need it.

• Other animals, kill animals, and we do not find that cruel. A tiger hunts down his dinner, and we call it the circle of life. How different are we? In fact, it could be said we are even better, because we raise them to be killed, and do not take them from families and such as wild animals do. We are, simply, animals killing animals for food.

We have a choice to eat them; other animals do not. Other animals will die without meat. We are different form them. We can survive and thrive on a vegetarian diet as long as we do it right. My vegetarian nutrition article

• The death is quick, instantaneous.

But the factory farm cruelty most of the meat you eat is not.

Now, I will not eat animals that have been hunted down and killed. That, I believe is cruel, because people do it for sport, not for food, and because those animals would have likely lived without our interference.

Actually, the hunted down animals are better off than the animals you eat.

[Guest]

I've seen videos like that before, so I'm aware not all animals are treated humanely. So when it comes to that, I disagree with the treatment of the animals, but not the fact that they were raised to be for food.


That aside, I also know that not all animals are. I have a friend who raises animals for food, and of which are killed humanely, and treated very kindly and comfortably their entire lives. So it does not apply to all animals we kill, though I do see your point about how they are treated at other places, and also hate it.

Can I ask then, if all of them were treated comfortably their entire lives, and killed quickly and humanely, would you still be against it?

[AnimalAvenger]

Actually, most of the meat you eat is raised like that. I know not all of it is, but most of it that is sold has been treated quite poorly. I'll try to find statistics if I can.

Can I ask then, if all of them were treated comfortably their entire lives, and killed quickly and humanely, would you still be against it?

Meat is an unnecessary death since we do not need to eat them. They just die for our taste-buds. There are even fake meats that taste exactly like actual meat out there, too.

[Guest]

Aug 12, 2009 1:47:04 GMT -5 AnimalAvenger said:

Actually, most of the meat you eat is raised like that. I know not all of it is, but most of it that is sold has been treated quite poorly. I'll try to find statistics if I can.

Can I ask then, if all of them were treated comfortably their entire lives, and killed quickly and humanely, would you still be against it?

Meat is an unnecessary death since we do not need to eat them. They just die for our taste-buds. There are even fake meats that taste exactly like actual meat out there, too.

I'm not saying most aren't =) I would have to research that, and sadly enough, doubt I'd find that most are treated well. I just know my friend does so.

I understand your opinion as well, that they just 'die for our taste buds' as you put it. But that brings me back to: they lived for our taste buds. The animals we kill would not have been born if we did not want meat to eat. If we did not have the wish to eat meat, then a lot of these animals never would have come into existence anyways.

[AnimalAvenger]

They don't need to. Most of these animals don't live long, anyway. They usually don't even live a year.

If we did not have the wish to eat meat, then a lot of these animals never would have come into existence anyways.

They also would never suffer from the neglect and cruelty they have to endure their entire lives. Can they really be happy living like that? How would you feel if, for your entire life, you went through both constant and physical pain? By eating meat, unless you buy from a farm you have visited yourself, you are definitely supporting factory farms. Because of the supply and demand, even more animals will have to live on factory farms.

Buying cruelty-free is definitely better, and I applaud anyone who does for at least trying to help animals. Some people just cannot give up meat for medical reasons, or at least they don't think so, so they have to eat it.

One more thing I'd like to add is that their death is not always painless. Sometimes, very painful methods are used, and the animal suffers greatly. Of course, this doesn't always happen.

Another thing is that the animals who haven't lived haven't lost anything, either, since they haven't even experienced life. They just simply don't exist.

[Guest]

Aug 12, 2009 2:04:31 GMT -5 AnimalAvenger said:

They don't need to. Most of these animals don't live long, anyway. They usually don't even live a year.

If we did not have the wish to eat meat, then a lot of these animals never would have come into existence anyways.

They also would never suffer from the neglect and cruelty they have to endure their entire lives. Can they really be happy living like that? How would you feel if, for your entire life, you went through both constant and physical pain? By eating meat, unless you buy from a farm you have visited yourself, you are definitely supporting factory farms. Because of the supply and demand, even more animals will have to live on factory farms.

Buying cruelty-free is definitely better, and I applaud anyone who does for at least trying to help animals. Some people just cannot give up meat for medical reasons, or at least they don't think so, so they have to eat it.

One more thing I'd like to add is that their death is not always painless. Sometimes, very painful methods are used, and the animal suffers greatly. Of course, this doesn't always happen.

Another thing is that the animals who haven't lived haven't lost anything, either, since they haven't even experienced life. They just simply don't exist.

Lol. I'm not arguing that point. I'm not saying it's right that they're treated so cruelly, in fact, I'm saying it's wrong. I'm not saying they are treated nicely, in fact, I'm saying the majority aren't. I'm not saying their deaths are always quick and painless either. I know they're not. I'm not debating that point, because I agree with you, like I said before =)

My question was, now that we're past that, if all were treated kindly their entire lives, would you still be against this?

[AnimalAvenger]

My question was, now that we're past that, if all were treated kindly their entire lives, would you still be against this?

I already answered this question. They do not have to die for our taste-buds.

Non-existent animals haven't lost anything, since they simply do not exist.

I understand your point of view on this, though.

[AnimalAvenger]

Most people do not know of any cruelty-free farms that they have visited themselves, and "free-range" and other labels do not mean cruelty-free. If you have not visited the farm yourself, you have no idea what they treat their animals like.

[Linn]

Personally, I think I'd be alright if the animals were treated humanely, then killed humanely, and had full lives that were as close to natural as it could get. The only reason I'm vegetarian is because I don't like the way the animals are treated. Wolves bring down deer, lions kill antelope, it's the circle of life. But since we're more advanced, we can make our food's life better, then kill them humanely. There's no excuse not to.

I love meat, but it's just not worth it.

[Guest]

Nor do I pretend to understand. Often times in fact I must say I'm glad of my ignorance, because of horrible it was. Though perhaps if I were more knowledgeable, I'd be more helpful.

Anyways. I agree they do not need to die for out taste buds, but because of my belief about they are brought into life for it, I doubt I'll change my mind about it soon. I understand all of your POVs, and agree with them in fact.

I wish I could be sure of how the animals were treated and killed, and that it was humane, and it's unfortunate I cannot.

Anyways, thank you for taking the time to talk this out with me.

[AnimalAvenger]

You're welcome. If you ever want to debate about anything else to do with animal rights or wish to challenge us with something else regarding meat, feel free to come back.

[AnimalAvenger]

Factory farmed meat, eggs, and dairy now account for 99 percent of all farmed animals raised in the United States.3 (Virtually all seafood comes to us by way of industrial fishing or factory fish farms.)

www.farmforward.com/farming-forward/factory-farming

Thanks to ShadowVegan for giving me the link.