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Post by AnimalAvenger on Oct 10, 2009 18:15:41 GMT -5
I see a clear, fine line between animal welfare and animal rights. In my opinion, the animal welfare cause is just for the well-being of the animals, while the animal rights cause is for the liberation and freedom of animals. Most in the animal rights movement believe animals should have the same basic rights as us humans. Those for animal rights can still fight for animal welfare in some cases, but they truly believe animals should not be owned or used for humans.
Many people, however, claim they're for animal rights when, in reality, they're just for animal welfare.
I do not believe that animal welfare is a complete waste of time, because at least it's something. In some cases, it takes tiny steps to walk one large step. I am for animal rights, however, and will fight for animal rights as much as possible.
What is your opinion?
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Post by DejaVu on Oct 11, 2009 11:26:27 GMT -5
I guess I am one of the "hypocritical scum bags" that would fall into the animal welfarist category. I believe animals should be well-treated, not abused, etc.
But, there is a reason we as humans are at the top of food chain, not them. We should treat them well, but they are NOT our equals. They are animals and their brains are not like ours. If I were to say to an animal "hi how are you?" they cannot process that like we humans do. Sure, you can teach one to respond in some way, but they're only responding to cues/sounds, not in actual understanding.
Animals are not our equals. Plain and simple.
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Post by whirrs on Oct 12, 2009 3:46:20 GMT -5
I think I really like you, dejavu. You don't have to, but it'd be really nice if you made an account or something. Most people here have the same point of view and it's nice to read another opinion.
I don't know if I'm welfare or rights. It depends. Because I don't know what is the actual definition of animal rights and liberation. Please enlighten me.
Is it okay to have pets? Is it okay to have pets that are cows or chickens? Is it okay to consume or sell the milk and eggs if you have a pet cow or chicken? Or are those abusing animal rights? Also, does animal liberation mean releasing endangered animals back into the wild? To "free" them? If yes, I think I'd only be a "hypocritical" "speciesist scum just like everyone else" -eek!
When I think of equal rights, for some reason I think of the civil rights/feminist movement. I sort of think that the rights black people/women got (right to vote? equal job opportunities?) don't really apply to animals?
So yeah, it really depends on the definition.
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GYARADOS.
Animal Rights Activist
eat like you give a damn!
Posts: 401
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Post by GYARADOS. on Oct 12, 2009 9:09:22 GMT -5
I guess I am one of the "hypocritical scum bags" that would fall into the animal welfarist category. I believe animals should be well-treated, not abused, etc. But, there is a reason we as humans are at the top of food chain, not them. We should treat them well, but they are NOT our equals. They are animals and their brains are not like ours. If I were to say to an animal "hi how are you?" they cannot process that like we humans do. Sure, you can teach one to respond in some way, but they're only responding to cues/sounds, not in actual understanding. Animals are not our equals. Plain and simple. if you said "hi, how are you?" to a german, he also wouldn't know what you were saying. they don't speak our language and WE don't speak theirs'. we actually have their brains inside of ours. it's called the "mammal brain" and we have it, its identical to a cat's, a cow's, or a dolphin's brain. the only difference is the addition of the neocortex to our brain. the neocortex basically stores information, that's it, it's just a library. to assume we are greater than animals is just like assuming white people are superior black people, or women inferior to men. ultimately, animal welfare plus the belief that they are inferior to us, will lead to their abuse. no matter what. |
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Post by DejaVu on Oct 12, 2009 14:44:55 GMT -5
It's not the same as believing white people are above African Americans, etc. The only difference between the two is the color of their skin. The difference between a human and an animal is incomparable.
I have chickens, cats, dogs, and horses. I do not treat them like I would a fellow human being because they AREN'T. They don't comprehend the way humans do. Anyway, I don't treat them like humans but I DO treat them WELL. They are not abused, are all happy animals, and have everything they need and more. They are this content without being treated like people.
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deja
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Post by deja on Oct 12, 2009 14:50:34 GMT -5
I think I really like you, dejavu. You don't have to, but it'd be really nice if you made an account or something. Most people here have the same point of view and it's nice to read another opinion. Ha ha thanks  I've read some of your other posts and you seem pretty cool too.  This is my account, I just haven't felt like logging in the past couple posts. I'll stick to this though  |
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Post by AnimalAvenger on Oct 12, 2009 20:59:31 GMT -5
Those with mental retardation aren't nearly as smart as normal humans, but you don't see us using them luxuriously for our needs.
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GYARADOS.
Animal Rights Activist
eat like you give a damn!
Posts: 401
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Post by GYARADOS. on Oct 13, 2009 9:58:05 GMT -5
i've mentioned it before; speciesism = racism = sexism. it's the same basic principal of us being greater than someone else, human seem to be obsessed with it. i'm sure we'll never agree on this, and i honestly value your opinion. oh, and i'm glad the animals you live with are well cared for. |
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Post by whirrs on Oct 14, 2009 8:56:01 GMT -5
thanks shadowvegan, for the most part I think I'd be animal rights.
Not so sure about leaving endangered animals to fend for themselves though.
and, what about pet cows/chickens? And would it be okay to drink/eat their eggs if you treat them like companions and everything? Why don't you believe that people can raise animals with good lives?
aw, thanks. (: sometimes i totally contradict myself though. Everything seems right and wrong so I get confused. PS. inboxinboxinbox.
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Post by whirrs on Oct 15, 2009 7:43:07 GMT -5
No, I probably wouldn't make profit on my kids.
but I think we'd be lucky, the day people start treating cows and chickens like pets - even if they use them for milk and eggs.
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GYARADOS.
Animal Rights Activist
eat like you give a damn!
Posts: 401
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Post by GYARADOS. on Oct 15, 2009 9:03:07 GMT -5
yeah,that'd be a huge step forward!
it's just... cow and chickens are 'livestock' as long as the farmer if gaining any sort of profit off of the animals, they become in a sense a tool. the farmer and the cow will never even be close to equals, as long as money wedging itself between them.
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deja
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Post by deja on Oct 15, 2009 15:24:31 GMT -5
People make profits off of their dogs, cats, and horses too. They show, they win, they get money. Doesn't mean the animals still aren't treated as pets.
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GYARADOS.
Animal Rights Activist
eat like you give a damn!
Posts: 401
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Post by GYARADOS. on Oct 15, 2009 15:53:32 GMT -5
in contest, yes. that's more of a team thing, whereas farmed animals are used to produce things for money. i just dont think you can truly and honestly love someone (and it'd be impossible to treat them as an equal) if you were making money off of them.
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deja
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Post by deja on Oct 15, 2009 20:31:35 GMT -5
Thank you, Gyarados, I respect your opinion. (not saying that sarcastically either) ShadowVegan, I can speak on behalf of dogs and horses at shows. I have been to numerous dog shows and the dogs look and act quite happy. I will admit to the occasional dogs that do not enjoy being in an environment such as the showring, but for the most part at the shows I have gone to the dogs and happy to do as they are commanded and then love the attention outside of the ring. (I realize that there are exceptions to everything and there are people that do not treat their dogs well and these people I do not approve of.) In regards to show horses. These horses (again, I cannot say all but the majority of them) like their jobs. I have noticed over the years that my horse actually gets a bit grouchy during the winter when I do not have as many opportunities to ride him. All through show season? Great attitude, ready and willing to do whatever I ask. Show horses are not treated as machines, you may be surprised as to how pampered some actually are. I speak for myself and many others when I say my horse is fed regularly, stalled nightly, blanketed when it's cold, fan on him when it's hot, in the barn during the day if it's really hot, bathed regularly, etc. If a horse doesn't like what they're doing, they'll let you know. If my horse honestly didn't want me on his back, to put it quite simply, I would be on the ground. Show horses like having something to do and the loud noises/unfamiliar surroundings? After they've been out a couple of times it doesn't bother them at all. They learn to trust their rider as their leader and if the leader says it's fine, then it must be fine. |
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Post by dynastygal on Dec 31, 2009 5:40:25 GMT -5
Lol, from seeing the kind of tripe deja has uttered on other forums, it's clear she's not all quite interested in animals being free from suffering.
Horses enjoying being enslaved for human gain...I like it. Next time someone rides on my back, I'll make sure to tell the rider how much bollocks is in the 'horses enjoy being ridden' statement.
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I've read some of your other posts and you seem pretty cool too. 
This is my account, I just haven't felt like logging in the past couple posts. I'll stick to this though 
