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Post by AnimalAvenger on Jul 21, 2009 23:59:50 GMT -5
Should humans be able to own pets, even if they take perfectly good care of them? Do humans have the right to own another being? Discuss.
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Post by AnimalAvenger on Jul 22, 2009 0:24:29 GMT -5
I personally do not think humans should be able to sell or own another living being. It is totally disrespectful, and many humans don't even know how to care for these animals. Also, by selling animals, many animals have to suffer from neglect, abuse, and over-population at shelters. It's just too selfish to sell animals. Many people and places that sell animals do not make sure these animals go to good homes, especially chain pet stores like Petco and Petsmart. Breeders also do this, too, but not all of them. It really depends on the breeder.
I think that no animal what-so-ever should be taken out of the wild at all. The animals' environment requirements are never completely met, and the owners often do not know how to take care of them properly. Also, the animals are wild, so they can easily hurt humans.
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Bhuvana
Animal Rights Supporter
Animals are my friends, and I don't eat my friends....
Posts: 55
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Post by Bhuvana on Jul 22, 2009 16:04:52 GMT -5
I agree with you 100%, though never will a world without the owning of another exist. I have never agreed with the world own, when refurring to feeling creatures, nor have I ever used the world 'pet'. The proper term, I believe, is companion animal. Though I believe we should have left all creatures wild, and we ourselves should have remained in the simple Native American life, I must say I'd find life difficult without my companions. I do not own them, persay, but rather live with them. They depend on me for food and enjoyment, I depend on them for love and comfort, then we both provide the other with protection.
But do I believe I own them? Let's just say I own them as much as they own me. We live equal lives, as it should be.
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Linn
Freedom Fighter
Little old lady got mutilated late last night, werewolves of London again.
Posts: 672
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Post by Linn on Jul 23, 2009 22:22:24 GMT -5
I don't think its right to consider animals our property. Pet stores disgust me, and shelters and pounds only exist because of someone not having enough brains to take care of their animal. I think my animals are definately my equals. They need us to take care of them, but that doesn't mean that they deserve to be looked at as a belonging or a posession.
I don't think that pet stores should sell anything other than cats, dogs, and captive-bred animals. And even then there needs to be some sort of test that people need to pass that makes sure they know they can take care of the animal. A form to fill out, anything.
I can't bring myself to be 100% sorry that they exist, otherwise I'd never have Damien, but something needs to be done about them.
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Post by .: Z I Z I A :. on Aug 13, 2009 0:43:59 GMT -5
Now, what about horses? They actually.. work. They do something. It's almost like they're not owned, but contracted. Now, I'm talking about horses that work on farms and herd cattle and stuff like that. Not the ones that jump as high as they can just for entertainment, like at the olimpics...
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Post by AnimalAvenger on Aug 13, 2009 0:59:35 GMT -5
I believe that they are not truly owned and that if you can get them to do things for you that it's actually out of trust and love, not ownership.
Some are treated pretty poorly, however, and I do not believe in that at all. We should show these animals some respect if they actually help us in any way. Some are actually more like slaves and prisoners than helpers.
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Post by dynastygal on Aug 16, 2009 19:45:00 GMT -5
No one can own another being, however in some cases companion animals are okay. Depends on the situation. If they are rescued, adopted, etc, that's great. If they are bought from a breeder, definitely not. Regardless, it's not ownership. They are beings with the right to their own lives. -SV What shadow said
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GYARADOS.
Animal Rights Activist
eat like you give a damn!
Posts: 401
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Post by GYARADOS. on Aug 16, 2009 21:42:45 GMT -5
i think we all already agree! XD
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Post by .: Z I Z I A :. on Aug 17, 2009 23:28:08 GMT -5
I get what Avenger said. I've fostered two rescue horses myself. One was two hundred pounds under weight (Long story, but not nessisary the owners fault, but still was) But anyways. We brought him back up to weight... Then he died... Of old age. He was 34. But yah, my horse, definatly trust and love. She's so pampered. Apples from our trees everyday, she loves herding cows all day, yah she loves it.
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Post by dynastygal on Aug 18, 2009 9:53:56 GMT -5
I don't agree with horse riding...horses have to be broken in to be ridden, making it obvious they weren't intended to be ridden in the first place. Look after a horse, fine, but don't ride it, there's no need.
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Post by Deja on Aug 24, 2009 9:38:09 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with riding horses. It's not cruel (don't start with "omg my neighbor he beat his horse when he was riding it ahh!" I am talking in general, the people that beat their horses are dumbasses, please do not group all horse riders/trainers into the same category as the bad ones), you do not have to use methods of fear or force. My family has three horses, two of which are just trail horses. My personal horse is a show horse. Meaning we go to shows most weekends. I ride huntseat eq. and pleasure, trail, and western horsemanship and pleasure. I've got to say, my horse is A LOT happier during show season rather than the winter when I can't ride him as often. Horses (as a whole, not every single one), like having a job, something to do. I ride my horse with spurs Do I beat and wail on him like an idiot? No. These REFINEMENT AIDS are commonly mistaken as stabbing tools to get your horse to "go fast". Please don't assume because you saw your neighbor's kid on a pony spurring the crap out of it to run the other day that that is what spurs are for. People that use spurs for that reason are stupid. Spurs are just to help press specific "buttons" on a horse. Your heel covers more area than the rowel (or round end) of your spur does, and it is especially helpful to be able to point to one spot to ask for a specific thing instead of confusing the horse. I ride my horse 4-6 days a week. Each ride is about an hour to an hour and a half. So, at "WORST" he's ridden 9 hours a week. He's got 159 hours to stuff his face. He is also brought into his stall every night with a fan and food, during the midday he is in his stall with a fan and food so he doesn't get too hot, he's bathed almost every week, loved on, and pampered to death. Wow, what a terrible life he's got in exchange for those 9 hours a week. Especially considering the fact that he LIKES going places and having something to do and being ridden! Please people, open your minds a little bit and actually think about things. Sorry this was so long. lol
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Post by dynastygal on Aug 24, 2009 16:54:54 GMT -5
Horse riding is unnatural. Why do you let someone ride your back and tell me how you feel? Of course it's wrong. And lol at you're assumptions about why I am against horse riding. I don't need to see people riding horses personally to know it's wrong although I have seen such since I went to a college for animal management and part of that was caring for horses. I don't care how pampered your horse is. He should not need to 'work' for that care. And I somehow doubt he enjoys a bit in his mouth, reigns pulling on his head, a chunky piece of leather crap on his back as well as some irritating, squealy human whos'e digging their heals into his side. No horse needs to be ridden. Horses are social animals, that belong with other horses in a large space so they can gallop, etc, and do herding behaviour. They don't belong underneath a silly homosapien. And lunging is a part of training horses to be ridden...wrong. Saying a horse needs to be ridden for exercise is a common excuse by horse riders who keep their horses cooped up in stables....or give the horses very little pasture time. If you can't afford enough space for horses to exercise adequately with other horses then you shouldn't be having horses in the first place. Simply put, horse riding is using an animal for personal pleasure. Something that is wrong. It is putting a human before an animal. Something that is wrong. Nobody needs to ride horses, so why do so? This might help people understand: veganfaq.blogspot.com/2007/10/is-horseback-riding-vegan.html
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deja
Soybean
14%
Posts: 9
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Post by deja on Aug 24, 2009 17:23:42 GMT -5
Omfg, you have no idea how sick I am of "horse riding is unnatural" "this and this is unnatural" blah blah blah. lol! It may not be "natural" but really, what is anymore? Humans drinking from aluminum cans, is that "natural"? Dogs running on grass that was fertilized, is that "natural"? Horses being captive is not "natural" but just turning my horse loose wouldn't really be ideal nowadays, would it? Even if it was I wouldn't. Please do not assume my horse doesn't get turned out in a big grass pasture. Does twice a day for hours at a time and he runs and romps and has himself a great time. He has horsey friends he gets turned out with occasionally, too. I didn't pull the "horses need to be ridden for exercise" excuse, either. And yep, I'm using my horse for my personal pleasure, but he enjoys it too. I mean, if he didn't want me on him, would I be? Me, 115lb human vs him, 900+lb horse... yeah, I think it's obvious who would win there. And if he hates being ridden so much, why does he whinny at me when I walk outside, why does he run to me when I go to get him out of the pasture, especially in the afternoon? He knows full well it isn't food time yet. Really, you cannot compare how YOU would like to do what horses do to what THEY would like. Human minds and horse minds do not work the same. They don't have actual thoughts like "omg there's that person again. i think i'll just go along with what they say today because i'm feeling a bit tired, tomorrow i'll give them a run for their money" I'm sorry, but horses simply aren't capable of actual, real thoughts like we are.
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Post by dynastygal on Aug 24, 2009 18:14:04 GMT -5
Omfg, you have no idea how sick I am of "horse riding is unnatural" "this and this is unnatural" blah blah blah. lol! It may not be "natural" but really, what is anymore? Humans drinking from aluminum cans, is that "natural"? Dogs running on grass that was fertilized, is that "natural"? Horses being captive is not "natural" but just turning my horse loose wouldn't really be ideal nowadays, would it? Even if it was I wouldn't. Please do not assume my horse doesn't get turned out in a big grass pasture. Does twice a day for hours at a time and he runs and romps and has himself a great time. He has horsey friends he gets turned out with occasionally, too. I didn't pull the "horses need to be ridden for exercise" excuse, either. And yep, I'm using my horse for my personal pleasure, but he enjoys it too. I mean, if he didn't want me on him, would I be? Me, 115lb human vs him, 900+lb horse... yeah, I think it's obvious who would win there. And if he hates being ridden so much, why does he whinny at me when I walk outside, why does he run to me when I go to get him out of the pasture, especially in the afternoon? He knows full well it isn't food time yet. Really, you cannot compare how YOU would like to do what horses do to what THEY would like. Human minds and horse minds do not work the same. They don't have actual thoughts like "omg there's that person again. i think i'll just go along with what they say today because i'm feeling a bit tired, tomorrow i'll give them a run for their money" I'm sorry, but horses simply aren't capable of actual, real thoughts like we are. When you put something unnatural on an animal against their will and is not for their benefit then you can't complain about the un naturalness of other things like cans etc because they don't involve using an animal for personal gain, do they? Of course it would be ideal to have a horse out to pasture with other horses...it's the nearest to natural you're gonna get with domesticated equines. And I didn't assume anything because I just explained what horses need and should have. He lets you ride him because you've trained him to let you. It's not out of his own choice. A horse would never allow a human on their back without being trained (forced to learn) to. And why does it matter whether or not a horse thinks like a human or not? It's not like I said they did, did I? So I don't know where you got that from. The point is, you wouldn't like such so why do you think a horse would when, like us, he/she is not intended to have other species on their backs. An animal doesn't have to think like a human to have the ability to like or dislike something.
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deja
Soybean
14%
Posts: 9
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Post by deja on Aug 24, 2009 20:42:52 GMT -5
As I said, if he didn't want me on him I wouldn't be, plain and simple. I really do not have a problem with using animals for entertainment purposes (aka showing horses, dogs, whatever) Doesn't mean I support beating the crap out of animals just for the fun of it so don't even start with that crap. I'm sure you're anti-using animals for entertainment though so go ahead and bitch at me for that, too.
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